What's wrong with this story.....

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Posted by Catherine Cartwright Jones on June 3, 2001 at 17:46:47:

In reply to: Henna Night Story posted by Dawn R on June 2, 2001 at 01:33:00:

"When did it first lend itself to human rites of passage,
offering protection and beauty? No one knows for sure"

The earliest use of henna for rites of passage seems to be 7000 BCE in
NW Syria and Anatolia. This can be absolutely verified by 3000 BCE in
that region. It was NOT used in Egypt on living women until over 1500
years after that, and then only by the courtesan/entertainer class,
(devotees of Amun-Ra) and their spouses, and foreigners from Libya or
Palestine/Minos etc. There were probably multiple origins of the use
of henna, but the origin of the "women's traditions" that we're
familiar with was in the eastern Mediterranian, along the Syrian,
Turkish, Palestinian, Mycenaean, Minoan areas! This IS known for
certain!

"During the third and fourth dynasties, when the great pyramids were
being built, Cleopatra went to extreme lengths to protect and enhance
her royal beauty with henna"

This is totally wrong. Cleopatra ruled during the Roman period, not
anywhere near the 3rd and 4th dynasties. Living women in Egypt during
the 3rd and 4th dynasties did not ornament themselves with henna ...
body marking during that period was limited to the
courtesan/entertainer/prostitute class, and that was just a bit of
tattooing on their thighs. Henna, during that period, was used in
Palestine, Syria, Minos and Mycenae ... and Libya..... NOT BY Egyptian
woman because they didn't fancy using something that was a cultural
marker of their enemies. ALl representations of living Egyptian women
prior to 1390 BCE have pale fingernails and pale palms, with no
evidence of henna ornamentation whatsoever. If henna was used in
mummification, it was as a deterrant to dessication, not because it
was a cosmetic worn by the living. Henna was cultivated in Egypt for
its oils and perfume during the early period ... not as an ornamental
cosmetic.

"Her tale is that of a great passion and the destructive power of
jealousy. Leaving Egypt, she crosses the Mediterranean to marry Julius
Caesar. With her to the shores of Rome went baskets of henna carried
by her faithful handmaidens. As the familiar story goes, she forsakes
Caesar and falls deeply in love with Mark Antony. Meanwhile, the henna
seeds the beautiful Egyptian Queen brought with her were being planted
firmly in the soil of Rome."

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Apart from basic history of the incident with
Marc Antony .... (which this person has dead wrong) Henna was a very
common export from Egypt into Rome, for the many uses other than hand
ornamentation..... it wouldn't have been anything new in Rome, and
Cleopatra's handmaiden's needen't have bothered. The seeds wouldn't
have grown in Rome decently, though it could have grown in Sicily.
The Romans noted that Cleopatra had hennaed hands, and deplored them
as they did all hennaed hands that they saw in the eastern part of
their empire. Syrian families used henna as a night of the henna in
Rome by 30 BCE .... Most of the eastern Roman empire was using henna
as ethnic identification, utilitarian purposes, and for "night of the
henna".
Back to history .... Cleopatra was a shrewd political woman who didn't
want to see her country just be a dependant colony of Rome, and felt
that if she became consort to one of the Roman leaders, she might have
a chance to elevate her country by the birth of a male heir of a
Roman. It didn't work. In any case .... even by contemporary records,
Cleopatra was NOT BEAUTIFUL, but was intelligent and had a very
dynamic personality, and was a capable and independant woman. Anyone
ELSE just get back from the exhibit at the British Museum that sinks
its teeth into the bullshit mythos that's wound around Cleopatra?

"From this passionate love between Cleopatra and Mark Antony came an
exquisite girl child, Cleopatra Selene."

Whaaaaaat?

"Word soon spread that the little Egyptian princess had been given in
marriage to the handsome King Juba II of Morocco. From Rome they would
cross the sea to reign together in Morocco. With her came her court of
women and all their potions, amongst them henna."

This just keeps getting worse! Henna traditions were in Morocco,
spread by the Cananite/Ugaritic trade atleast by 1700 BCE, and
Egyptians knew perfectly well that it was there!!!!!!

"Here, henna eroticizes a woman who must live behind veils."

Moroccan women weren't veiling during that period!!! This is
rediculous!

Henna parties are called to help a woman who is troubled or when there
is a need to contact the spirit world."

That's Zar, and it's not a henna party, though henna is part of it
.... and the paragraph that follows is beyond fiction. Despicable
that anyone should put this on the web and pass it off as fact. There
are many good pieces of scholarship on Zar, and why this person hasn't
bothered to read any of them is appalling.

"Traditionally, Mehndi is practiced exclusively by women,"

Wrong again.

OK ... that's as much of that rot as I feel like picking apart at the
moment ..... will that do as a starting point for debunking this
thing?

Follow Ups

British Museum Exibit! I just saw it! ~*Kalila*~ 17:07:08 6/6/2001 (0)
Re: Cleopatra Selene Talia 02:26:09 6/4/2001 (5)
- Re: Cleopatra Selene Catherine Cartwright Jones 02:29:35 6/4/2001 (4)
  - Re: Cleopatra Selene Talia 02:32:42 6/4/2001 (3)
    - Re: Cleopatra Selene Catherine Cartwright Jones 02:54:55 6/4/2001 (2)
      - Re: Cleopatra Selene Talia 05:51:28 6/4/2001 (1)
        
        Re: Cleopatra Selene Catherine Cartwright Jones 11:36:31 6/4/2001 (0)
Re: What's wrong with this story..... Dawn R 20:31:06 6/3/2001 (0)

Post Followup

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: "When did it first lend itself to human rites of passage, : offering protection and beauty? No one knows for sure" : : The earliest use of henna for rites of passage seems to be 7000 BCE in : NW Syria and Anatolia. This can be absolutely verified by 3000 BCE in : that region. It was NOT used in Egypt on living women until over 1500 : years after that, and then only by the courtesan/entertainer class, : (devotees of Amun-Ra) and their spouses, and foreigners from Libya or : Palestine/Minos etc. There were probably multiple origins of the use : of henna, but the origin of the "women's traditions" that we're : familiar with was in the eastern Mediterranian, along the Syrian, : Turkish, Palestinian, Mycenaean, Minoan areas! This IS known for : certain! : : : "During the third and fourth dynasties, when the great pyramids were : being built, Cleopatra went to extreme lengths to protect and enhance : her royal beauty with henna" : : This is totally wrong. Cleopatra ruled during the Roman period, not : anywhere near the 3rd and 4th dynasties. Living women in Egypt during : the 3rd and 4th dynasties did not ornament themselves with henna ... : body marking during that period was limited to the : courtesan/entertainer/prostitute class, and that was just a bit of : tattooing on their thighs. Henna, during that period, was used in : Palestine, Syria, Minos and Mycenae ... and Libya..... NOT BY Egyptian : woman because they didn't fancy using something that was a cultural : marker of their enemies. ALl representations of living Egyptian women : prior to 1390 BCE have pale fingernails and pale palms, with no : evidence of henna ornamentation whatsoever. If henna was used in : mummification, it was as a deterrant to dessication, not because it : was a cosmetic worn by the living. Henna was cultivated in Egypt for : its oils and perfume during the early period ... not as an ornamental : cosmetic. : : : "Her tale is that of a great passion and the destructive power of : jealousy. Leaving Egypt, she crosses the Mediterranean to marry Julius : Caesar. With her to the shores of Rome went baskets of henna carried : by her faithful handmaidens. As the familiar story goes, she forsakes : Caesar and falls deeply in love with Mark Antony. Meanwhile, the henna : seeds the beautiful Egyptian Queen brought with her were being planted : firmly in the soil of Rome." : : Wrong, wrong, wrong. Apart from basic history of the incident with : Marc Antony .... (which this person has dead wrong) Henna was a very : common export from Egypt into Rome, for the many uses other than hand : ornamentation..... it wouldn't have been anything new in Rome, and : Cleopatra's handmaiden's needen't have bothered. The seeds wouldn't : have grown in Rome decently, though it could have grown in Sicily. : The Romans noted that Cleopatra had hennaed hands, and deplored them : as they did all hennaed hands that they saw in the eastern part of : their empire. Syrian families used henna as a night of the henna in : Rome by 30 BCE .... Most of the eastern Roman empire was using henna : as ethnic identification, utilitarian purposes, and for "night of the : henna". : Back to history .... Cleopatra was a shrewd political woman who didn't : want to see her country just be a dependant colony of Rome, and felt : that if she became consort to one of the Roman leaders, she might have : a chance to elevate her country by the birth of a male heir of a : Roman. It didn't work. In any case .... even by contemporary records, : Cleopatra was NOT BEAUTIFUL, but was intelligent and had a very : dynamic personality, and was a capable and independant woman. Anyone : ELSE just get back from the exhibit at the British Museum that sinks : its teeth into the bullshit mythos that's wound around Cleopatra? : : : : "From this passionate love between Cleopatra and Mark Antony came an : exquisite girl child, Cleopatra Selene." : : Whaaaaaat? : : "Word soon spread that the little Egyptian princess had been given in : marriage to the handsome King Juba II of Morocco. From Rome they would : cross the sea to reign together in Morocco. With her came her court of : women and all their potions, amongst them henna." : : This just keeps getting worse! Henna traditions were in Morocco, : spread by the Cananite/Ugaritic trade atleast by 1700 BCE, and : Egyptians knew perfectly well that it was there!!!!!! : : "Here, henna eroticizes a woman who must live behind veils." : : Moroccan women weren't veiling during that period!!! This is : rediculous! : : Henna parties are called to help a woman who is troubled or when there : is a need to contact the spirit world." : : That's Zar, and it's not a henna party, though henna is part of it : .... and the paragraph that follows is beyond fiction. Despicable : that anyone should put this on the web and pass it off as fact. There : are many good pieces of scholarship on Zar, and why this person hasn't : bothered to read any of them is appalling. : : "Traditionally, Mehndi is practiced exclusively by women," : : Wrong again. : : OK ... that's as much of that rot as I feel like picking apart at the : moment ..... will that do as a starting point for debunking this : thing?
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